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Docsis 3.0 with less than a shoestring budget!

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Docsis 3.0 with less than a shoestring budget!

Currently using a 7246VXR with MC28Us and would like to see if there is any chance to get D3.0 going for cheap. From what research I've done so far it looks like this might have a chance.

UBR10k with 5x20 cards.
PRE2 or PRE4?
DTCC cards

Harmonic NSG 9116

No DTI server.

From what I can gather from the docs a DTI server is not strictly required if a few limitations are adhered to. No Docsis 1.x or 2 modems can be used on the e-qam and the primary enabled Docsis 3 channel must be on the 5x20 card.

Now for my really dumb questions!

Will this work at all? Will Docsis 1.x and 2 modems be fine as long as they reside on the 5x20 cards? Can I bond 4 or 8 DS channels using 1 channel from the 5x20 and the other 3 or 7 from the e-qam? Any upstream bonding options with this setup?

I'm sure this seems rather lame. We serve a small area and our budget is even smaller. Just wanted to see if this might be a viable option to improve things a bit.

Thanks for any and all help!

D2 modems will connect to the

D2 modems will connect to the primary channels on the 5x20 only.

For 4 tuner D3 modems, you will need 1 primary from the 5x20, plus then a 3 way bonding group on the EQAM.

For 8 tuner D3 modems, you will need 1 primary from the 5x20, plus then you can make a 7 way bonding group on the EQAM.

The D3 modems will register on the primary, and then get timing etc from this DS, but internet traffic will be via the 3 or 7 way BG.

Perhaps have a look at the 2nd hand 20x20 cards, these have become more common lately / dropping in price as larger operators move up to the 3G60.

The 20x20 is a good card for 4 and 8 way D3 bonding. Less complex than having SPAs and EdgeQAMs.

An ARRIS C4/C4c should be

An ARRIS C4/C4c should be cheap.

Arris C4c and C4 for sale

Hi, I see you were looking for an Arris C4 or C4c. What does "really cheap" mean to you? What is your budget. I have both in stock.

How many segments do you need

How many segments do you need?

How many modems?

Would it be possible to remove Docsis1 modems?

But yes, look at something used, but probably not 5x20 but 20x20 and dont go down the M-CMTS route..

Maybe a micro cmts solution such as teleste dah would be possible for you.

Also, MC88V cards have been coming down in price lately, if you still fancy a 7200 platform.

I could get by with 2 8

I could get by with 2 8 channel bonded groups, with each group feeding 2 nodes for a bit. Little over 400 modems. I'm going through the D1.x modems and I think we can get rid of those but the D2 will be around for a while. From what I've read the 5x20 and e-qam should work but I have no real world experience with how much of a hassle it is. 20x20 cards are an option and looking more attractive, just waiting for the right price.

Not interested in micro cmts, looking for something that will scale and last a while.

Yeah, the MC88V cards are getting cheaper but that's still more of a short term solution and I can still get a decent 10k for about the same price as 1 MC88V.

Thanks for the input!



Just get the 20x20, I think the m-cmts solution is too big and too many components for what you are doing.

I'm doing 2x8 and one spanned 1x4 for a total of 12DS per segment per card on the 20x20.
One limit you need to keep in mind with the 20x20 though is the max 8 upstream per mac domain.

Unless you think you need to go above what a ubr10k with 20x20's can handle, IMO.

The issue with D1 modems is that you will not be able to go 6.4Mhz ATDMA on the upstream, which is key in my opinion.

Also, go PRE4 unless it is really short term.

/ Philip

Thanks for your input, much

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. The UBR10k with 20x20s is really the ideal solution. You're right about that. I was mostly looking at the 5x20s + e-qam because it's dirt cheap and would seem to meet my needs. I'll have to keep an eye out and see if I can snag a couple 20x20s for a good price. Will definitely get the PRE4s.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.


You should be able to pick up a cisco 7225 with two mc88v cards fairly cheap these days, that'd do your two sets of 8, all in one package.

The problem with putting the mc88v cards in another chassis is they don't play well with other cards. aside from that, the C4c is your next-cheapest option, and has plenty of room to grow for your 400modems. Get it through the NCTC for the best price, if you're not a member, sign up it'll save you a ton of money.

Thanks. Keep in mind I'm

Thanks. Keep in mind I'm using Ebay to get an idea on pricing. The NCTC is great for a lot of things, unfortunately 2nd hand network gear usually isn't one of them! I have been checking there for decent deals of course but no luck so far.

The MC88V cards aren't really an option. I would need 2 in use plus a 3rd for redundancy which also rules out the 7225 since it only has 2 slots. Those cards are significantly more expensive per port than anything for the 10k.

As for the C4/C4c, again they are significantly higher than the 10K.

I realize any of these options will work for ~400 modems but part of this endeavor is to increase the modem count and I don't want a chassis that is going to need to be replaced in a year or two because of bandwidth issues.

Thanks again.

Hoping for some critique on

Hoping for some critique on this. Suggestions? Did I miss anything obvious?

UBR10k chassis, fan, power supplies.
ESR-PRE4 ~ Any versions I need to avoid? Looks as though Version 5s are abundant and relatively inexpensive.
DTCC ~ Will the unit function with 1 or are 2 strictly required?

Thanks for the help!

Exact setup we run

Your configuration is exactly what we run. I can't speak to the versions of PRE cards. We have a variety and they all seem to work fine. We have about 10 uBR10k CMTSs in production running SCG6.

For DTCCs, the unit will function with one(not recommended), but you should have two. The DTCCs are required at boot for the MC20x20V line card. That is either a reboot of the chassis or when you insert a new line card into a running CMTS.

EDIT: The DTCC information provided is only for an I-CMTS setup.

Thanks for the input. The I

Thanks for the input. The I-CMTS info is what I was looking for. I'll go ahead and stick a pair of DTCCs in it. I just wanted to double check and make sure I wasn't missing something obvious hardware wise.

Thanks again!

Nothing major missing, but a few minor things you need

It looks like you have the complete setup as far as operating cards are needed. One thing I would note though is that there are a few "extra" things you need that some suppliers don't always include. Slot covers for cooling on the MC slots (especially if you are only running a handful of 20X20), AC power cords with L-Elbow (standard cords won't allow you to put the cover on the unit), and RF Cables for the 20X20 cards, which can actually be somewhat pricey. We've seen a number of operators buy the whole system, only to realize when it's time to deploy that some things are missing.

Best of Luck!

Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the info. I was aware of the need for the rf cables and slot covers but you're right, those things add up. I wasn't aware of the power cable issue but I'm using dc power so it doesn't apply in my case. That is definitely useful information and good to keep in mind for the next tight-wad who comes along. For the rf cables the pricing is ridiculous. I would recommend anyone going this route to make up the cables in house and stack the upstream ports (fewer cables required).


Yes, it is possible.

Just wanted thank everyone for all their help in this endeavor and answer the question I asked in the beginning. It is entirely possible to piece together a fairly nice ubr10k for somewhere around the going prices of a single mc88v if you don't mind putting in a little time and effort. A complete box ready to go will cost significantly more but one piece at a time can drastically reduce the cost. I've had the hardware running for a couple of weeks now (not deployed yet) while I make my way through the config and learn how to drive the thing.

For completeness, this is the hardware I picked up.

Fan tray
2 x dc pems
5 x mc slot covers
2 x DTCC
2 x ESR-PRE4
1 x Sip 600
1 x 5x1GEv2
1 x MC5x20H-D
2 x MC20x20v-20D (1 active - 1 spare)
coax, connectors and other miscellaneous items I can't think of right now.

Slightly under $6k

I believe for a small operator the 10k is an excellent way to upgrade to docsis 3.0. It has a massive amount of capacity for very little money. There are downsides. It's big, bulky, messy to wire and probably more power hungry than other options but for me the cost and capabilities are worth the trade off. It was designed for a scale I will never see (nor do I really want to see if I'm being honest) but it should allow me to provide a much improved and very good service for my little corner of the world.

Thanks again everyone.

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