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UBR10k MC20x20

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windwaterwaves
UBR10k MC20x20

Is it possible to create wideband groups across cards or will I be maxed out at 20ds for a node?

Part 2... What does the cable rf-channel 0 bandwidth-percent 1 remaining ratio 100 really do?

Does that say I am dedicating 1 percent of the bandwidth to this interface but it can use 100.

So lets say..
integrated cable x/x/x
cable rf-channel 0 bandwidth-percent 1 remaining ratio 100

wideband cable x/x/x
cable rf-channel 0 bandwidth-percent 1 remaining ratio 100

Will they just battle each other out?
Should I set each one to say 50 percent, ratio 100? or? What if I want to dedicate some integrateds to use 90% of a channel can I do 90/10 wide?

mbowe
yes, max 20ds

yes, max 20ds

windwaterwaves
Ugh.. what about the UBR

Ugh.. what about the UBR-MC3GX60V does that do 60 channels of qam? looks like that won't work it needs an rf gateway?

So I am literally stuck again, at max 20ds on a node with a ubr10k. We just dropped tv and I was super excited to spin up a ton more docsis.

mbowe
Yes, welcome to the next step

Yes, welcome to the next step

20x20 card is OK for small site, but really is a pretty old card, designed for back when 4x4 was usual and 8x4 was real fancy. We bought our first batch new in 2010..... Things have changed a lot since then !

To get more than 20 DS channels per node, you need to get DTI and EdgeQAM. Both of which are reasonably cheap buying used these days. And your CMTS must have 2 x DTCC cards.

From there the possible upgrade steps could be :

1/ Add some 1G SPA24 cards to the existing 20x20 system
This gives you up to 6 more 24 DS mac-domains.
But you are still stuck at max 20 or 24 DS per mac-domain.

2/ Replace 20x20 cards with 3G60 (72x60 license).
Each 3G60 could be configured eg 3 x 24 DS, or 2 x 32 DS mac-domains.
Can also optionally use up to 6 x 1G SPA24 cards to create additional 24 DS mac-domains.

3/ Get some 3G or 6G SPA cards.
These give you a lot more channels to play with.
But you also have to upgrade to PRE5, enhanced fan tray, enhanced power supply.
PRE5 has the 10G ethernet ports in the front. So you now can have up to 8 x 3G or 6G SPAs in the SIP-600 at rear.

And with all these cards, you are still limited to 8 x US channel per mac-domain, which is usually an important design issue when trying to fairly distribute the linecard resources.

This doc is worth a read :
http://bowe.id.au/michael/isp/DOCSIS/collected-references/472_10-15-14-C...

windwaterwaves
How/where does the actual QAM

How/where does the actual QAM signal get generated from the 3G60 and what do the SPA24 cards attach to? A remote chassis?

WBB
EQAM

You will need a external QAM modulator and a DTI server. The Harmonic NSG-9000-40G seems to be the overall best option for the QAM modulator. For DTI you'll need a Symmetricom TC1000.

For the 3Gx60 cards they have upstream rf ports but for downstream they use SFP ports that you connect to the EQAM either directly or through an aggregation switch. The SPA cards connect to the EQAM in the same manner but they have to be "hosted" by one of your cable line cards with upstream rf ports.

I think that's the gist of it. I am currently going through this transition from the 20x20 cards and I'm only running 1 node on the 3Gx60 card at the moment. So, still very much learning here.

Hope this helps.

windwaterwaves
Thanks I looked those up, It

Thanks I looked those up, It sounds like I could do that for around the price of another mc20x20 card ($2k), harmonic $1k, Symmetricom $500, an spa24 $200 or a mc3gx for like $400, and another DTI for $500.. So is this "remote phy"? Or "modular" cable. What does the harmonic and symmetricom set up look like? Web based or ?

mbowe
This is modular cable

This is modular cable (edgeqam in the headend)
Which is different to remote-phy (which is like putting the edgeqam in the node)

TC1000 setup is telnet (not much to configure)
When shopping, you want to check for :
* 2 x PS (can be AC or DC)
* 2 x IOC (timing cards. One is active the other provides redundancy)
* 1 x IMC (management interface. If it dies the timing will still keep working)
* With the timing ports (RJ45), there are always 12 of these in the chassis. But the timing cards come in 4, 8, and 12 port versions. Only the nominated number of timing ports will be active (license based?). 4 port provides for 1 x CMTS and 1 x EdgeQAM (H/A to each). 8 port and 12 port allows more devices eg multiple CMTS and/or edgeqams. So if there was a 12 port unit selling for similar price as lesser ports, then get the 12 port.

NSG9000 setup is HTTP GUI (fair bit to setup, but I have posted some guides)
* NSG9000-6G is the small model, 144 DS max. (ie 2 x 3G60 cards). Big gotcha is max 8 DS per port.
* NSG9000-40G is the more powerful/expandable model, 648 DS max (ie could take a whole ubr10k with 8 x 3G60 cards). Max 36 DS per port.
* Both are the same physical size, so you dont save any space in headend by putting in the 6G. I would recommend getting the 40G for more expansion options.

3G60 cards are license based for US and DS
* Max DS is 72
* Max US is 60 (and you can stack 6 x US channels per cable compared to 2 x US on the 2020. Makes wiring a lot simpler)
* When shopping used, you will see cards selling with all sorts of different DS and US combinations. If possible get the 72x60 version for max flexibility
* You can re-use your 2020 looms, or there are 3G60 looms available too. Beware they usually have different US pin-outs though. You can re-pin existing looms quite easily if you have the Cisco removal tool "remtool"

WBB
Careful

Some of your prices look a little suspect. I'm basing this on the prices in the US.

3g60 cards can have different licenses. Anywhere from none to 72ds x 60us. Generally the dirt cheap cards have no or few licenses. Expect to pay $1k+ for a fully licensed card. I might fudge a little on upstream licenses but I would be very careful about buying a card with anything less than 72ds.

Harmonic. There are several versions of the NSG - 9000 available. There is a 3G 72 channel version, a 6G 144 channel version and then a 40G 648 channel version. There a few other even older versions that should probably be avoided as well. You really should look into the 40G version due to the density.

I spent a fair amount of time on the EQAM decision. The NSG-9000-40G seemed like the best way to go. It will probably cost significantly more than $1k but it will fill in for several $1k boxes.

Hope it helps.

SPA and DTI prices look good.

windwaterwaves
How many DS in a Mac domain?

How many DS in a Mac domain? All the extra parts always worries me, more points of failure. The 144 would be fine as we only have 4 nodes currently but may move to 6 at some point.

windwaterwaves
Could I just add a 1g spa24

Could I just add a 1g spa24 card, a second dtcc, timing unit, and external qam box and do 6 more mac domains? I only have 4 now but thats split between two 20x20. If I could give them all 20 ds that would hold off the wolves for a while until I bought a 3g60x card. Or should I just bite the bullet and do the 3g? then dedicate 2x32 channels to 2 of the mac domains and 2x20 to the other two...

mbowe
So your current config is

So your current config is like this? :

2020 card 1 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20 onboard DS shared N1/N2, 4US direct N1, 4US direct N2)
2020 card 2 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20 onboard DS shared N3/N4, 4US direct N3, 4US direct N4)

You have plenty of options

Option 1/
Add more 2020 cards

2020 card 1 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20DS direct N1, 4US direct N1)
2020 card 2 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20DS direct N2, 4US direct N2)
2020 card 3 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20DS direct N3, 4US direct N3)
2020 card 4 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20DS direct N4, 4US direct N4)

Option 2/
Add 1 x DTCC, 1 x DTI, 2 x SPA24, edgeqam(s)

2020 card 1 and SPA24 card 1 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20 onboard DS direct N1, 4US direct N1)
- 1 mac domain (24 SPA DS direct N2, 4US direct N2)
2020 card 2 and SPA24 card 2 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (20 onboard DS direct N3, 4US direct N3)
- 1 mac domain (24 SPA DS direct N4, 4US direct N4)

Option 3/
Add 1 x DTCC, 1 x DTI, 2 x 3G60, edgeqam(s)

3G60 card 1 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (32DS direct N1, 4US direct N1)
- 1 mac domain (32DS direct N2, 4US direct N2)
3G60 card 2 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (32DS direct N3, 4US direct N3)
- 1 mac domain (32DS direct N4, 4US direct N4)

or perhaps something like

3G60 card 1 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (64DS shared N1/N2, 4US direct N1, 4US direct N2)
3G60 card 2 configured as :
- 1 mac domain (64DS shared N3/N4, 4US direct N3, 4US direct N4)

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